Jesus's take on freewill

Roman Catholics, like many of their Protestant coutnerparts, claim Jesus died for all and all have the freewill to choose or reject him. That's not what Jesus says in John 6...
Jesus on freewill

43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.'[d] Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. 46No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. 48I am the bread of life. 49Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. 51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

52Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"

53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." 59He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Desert Jesus

60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"

61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

Jesus refuses to pray for the world--much less die for it
 
In addition, just before Jesus, God the Son, goes to his death on the cross, he prays to God the Father for those the Father has given him--he flatly refuses to pray for everyone in the world...
 
"I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them." John 17:10
 
Jesus refuses to even pray for the world--much less die for it.
 
Freewill is simply a false teaching that comes with the false gospel, which claims Christ died for all.  

We interupt the intended post for a message from God...(series)

This just happened to be in today's reading in the Book of Common Prayer, accident?

Jeremiah 3:19

Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the Lord. A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the Lord their God. Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the Lord our God. Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains: truly in the Lord our God is the salvation of Israel.

Taking on the “repent and believe” gospel

(Blogger’s note) I wrote the following in response to a letter by a father and son team who call themselves evangelists and essentially approach people on the street telling them various reasons that they need to “repent and believe” in Christ. “Do you know if you died today, whether you would go to heaven or hell?” That type of thing.

In any case, for this father and son team this approach is what passes for “preaching the gospel.” I wrote this to share biblically why their approach is not the biblical gospel—there is no repenting before there is believing (which is the work of the Holy Spirit—our new birth, John 3). In other words, if you have not yet received the gift of faith, you will have no desire to repent:  
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor. 2:14)

You wrote: We believe that Jesus died ONCE for ALL our sins. When we repent and receive Him, we are SAVED. That's all we do. The reformers called this Sola Fide.

I responded: I must disagree. This is not what the reformers called sola fide because sola fide means “by faith alone” but you say, even without faith in Christ, one has the ability to repent and receive him, as you put it, “That’s all we do.” Repentance comes not before but only after we are given the gift of faith (born again). Otherwise it is a “work” of man. Again, “Without faith it is impossible to please God. Without me you can do nothing…”
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 Cor. 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

As a former cradle Catholic for more than 40 years, I dare say your father and I sought to confess our sins time and again in true repentance before our priest friends. But, as for me, the first day I knew I was truly forgiven was the day that the Holy Spirit brought me to admit that Christ alone had saved me and I had would never be able to contribute anything to the salvation he alone has won for me.

Then and only then was I truly able to repent of my sins, because, until that time, I had not believed in the true Christ. The Christ I had been taught about was an idol of the pope’s making. He had died only to make me “savable”—not to save me completely. That idol christ—which was no Christ at all—bid me to do many things such as attend daily Mass, receive and pray to him in the form of bread, repent of my sins and rely on priestly mediation to get the worst of my sins forgiven, etc…

What I am saying is that from a practical standpoint, practicing “repentance first” all those years never did a thing for me and your dad as Roman Catholics. What made all the difference was to believe the true Gospel. After I received faith in the true Christ who had totally accomplished my salvation by his death on the cross, I knew I was forgiven, even before I repented, though I did indeed repent in tears of sorrow and joy.

2 Timothy 1:9 …who has saved us and called us to a holy life–not because of anything we have done (repentance) but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

Romans 1:17 For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[ 1:17 Or is from faith to faith] just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."[ 1:17 Hab. 2:4]
Romans 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

What I’m urging you and your father is to preach the true Gospel first and then you will occasionally see the true repentance that comes from belief in a God who did (and does) it all.

And what is that true Gospel?—that Christ alone has won the salvation of all those who come to believe just that—he did it all. That does not mean that we don’t seek the good works he gives us to bring glory to him among men, but that we fully realize those works won’t get us to heaven—Christ alone will. Something he plainly promises: He who believes…has everlasting life. ..I go to prepare a place for you…No one can snatch you out of my hands…

For me, the tract version of that Gospel goes like this: Christ, the Son of God, is Lord, Savior and God in the flesh, who died to rescue those who believe in him from everlasting hell and secured for them everlasting life with him.

If they hear and believe that, by the power of the Holy Spirit, they’ll know they need to repent—and then you can help them more.

However, your gospel, has Christ dying for everyone, those who believe and those who do not ultimately believe, to secure their ability to at least repent and receive. The only problem is that you have no direct biblical basis for this belief.

You make your own case for this “repenting before faith” by insisting that John the Baptist and Christ himself would not have preached “Repent for the Kingdom of heaven is near” unless all people on earth (or at least all the Jews at that time) were able to repent and receive the faith to be saved. You conclude: So clearly man is able to repent, without the need of God needing to supernaturally and individually help man to respond to this divine command. In other words, you admit the basis of your gospel is only “implied” by certain verses such as those from the Baptist and Christ.

This much is clear: Everyone on the face of this earth has the responsibility to repent of their sins. As Paul tells us, they have no excuse. But having a responsibility and the actual power to carry out that responsibility are two entirely different things (Again, without me you can do nothing).

Your premise that Christ didn’t command the impossible is negated throughout the scriptures, where he often commanded the impossible

“Young man, I say to you arise.”


“Little girl, arise.”


“Lazarus, come forth!”


“Therefore you shall be perfect…”


“you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.”

Christ even explained on one occasion that it is, for all practical purposes, impossible for a rich man to get to heaven. His disciples countered with “Who then can be saved?” “With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”

However, by insisting that man is somehow of him or herself able to repent without the benefit of faith, you are saying that all men are able of themselves to initiate a saving process. Since you insist they are somehow able to do this without the benefit of faith, it’s the same as the so-called fathers of Trent insisting that natural (ungenerated) man can prepare himself to receive saving grace.

“If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.” (Canon 9 on Justification, Council of Trent)

Without faith, the repentance you speak of would certainly seem to qualify as an “action of our own will” which means that, no matter how many times we say we are saved by faith alone, we do not truly believe that we are saved solely by faith—by Christ through faith—because we were able to repent of our sins without it (without him!).

All this also reminds me of that Catholic teaching that I used to so cherish that we are somehow born with a “spark” of the divine in us, a spark that we ourselves somehow have the ability and a responsibility to kindle. Taken together, all of this is the reason that Roman Catholics are labeled semi-Pelagians. I know you’ve heard of Pelagius. He, of course, claimed that man could do much more than simply repent. However, since you teach me that my repentance was strictly of me—I too can qualify as a semi-Pelagian.

The other thing that bothers me about all this is that you seem to desperately try to separate grace and faith, to try to prove that faith is somehow not a gift. For by grace we are saved through faith… How can the two be separated if God’s grace is indeed, as his word indicates, delivered or instrumented through faith? The grace of God is this: that we are saved by Christ through faith. The word says “Without faith it is impossible to please God..”, yet you and I would surely agree that repentance is pleasing to God. Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. Surely that is enough to indicate that it is a gift if you choose to discount the clear revelation of Ephesians 2:8-9. If that’s not good enough, try these:

Faith as a gift…

Matthew 16:16-17 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, " Blessed are you Simon Son of Peter for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you but My Father who is in heaven. (faith is a gift of God)
Romans 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.
Acts 3:16 By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name and the faith that comes through Him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see.
Luke 17:5 The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!" (faith is a gift)
James 2:5 Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as gold.

That’s another thing that’s scary about your work on Calvin and your reaction to the verses I sent you. It’s as if you tend to reject or avoid certain bible verses that Calvinists use, simply because they use them. I trust that is not correct and that you embrace every word from God, at least as much as you seem to embrace every word from Ruckerman.

None of this should be taken to mean that we should not preach the Gospel to all. Indeed we should preach it to all. Christ commanded such. But we should certainly ensure that it’s the correct Gospel. Evangelizing techniques (sinners prayers and altar calls, etc…) should not be the basis for Gospel doctrine.

Did Christ truly die for all the world? For everyone? The pope tells me he did. You also listed several verses (in your Calvin article) but you failed to point out the qualifiers in and around them. Such as John 3:16 “whosever believes” What did Christ say? “He who believes in me has everlasting life.” And before he went to his death, he prayed to the Father::

John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Here Christ is preparing for his death on the cross and he refuses to pray for the world, that verse certainly needs to be thrown into the mix in order for you to properly weigh the others. Here’s a few more worthy of inclusion: “Even the Spirit of truth, who the world cannot receive because it seeth him not…” (John 14:7) “…For all men have not faith.” (2 Thess. 3:2)

---Bro. Jim

Verses for meditation...as we stand watch

ACTS 17:24-25

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

JOHN 6:56

He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

About predestination in the Bible -

an excerpt from "A Cry for Help" by C.C. Morris with the Primitive Baptist Church --absolute predestinarian. For full essay, go to http://www.the-remnant.com/articles.htm


"...Then, after floundering around in spiritual waters far too deep for him, the young writer finally cries out for help: "Where is it taught that God has predestinated anyone to hell? Or that He has predestinated all things good and evil that comes to pass?" At last, luckily for him, we can welcome the opportunity to help him.

As for his former question, "Where is it taught that God has predestinated anyone to hell?" We suggest he might start with 1 Peter 2.8: "...a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed." While there, he might answer this: When did God appoint them to stumbling disobedience, if not by eternal predestination?

He might then try, "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption (2 Peter 2.12)," and while there he should answer: When did God determine He would make them to be taken and destroyed? In time, or by eternal decree?

Next, he might try, "...there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ (Jude 4)," and answ er: Is not being "before of old ordained to this condemnation" the same as being predestinated to hell?

And after that, he might try this text: "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness (2 Thessalonians 2.11-12)." If he does, we'd like to hear his answer to this question: When did God determine He would send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie and all be damned? Lately? Or was it eternally predestinated?

And he might try these texts: "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated...Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth...Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour (Romans 9.13, 18, 21)?" Just exactly when did God determine He would hate Esau, harden Pharaoh, and make others vessels unto dishonour—was it in time, or in His eternal counsel and by His decree of predestination?

As for his latter question, "[Where is it taught] that He has predestinated all things good and evil that comes [sic] to pass?" (Since the young writer was so good to share his knowledge of the Greek with us, perhaps we can bear with his faulty English.)

May we suggest he might find an answer to this question in such passages as, "Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good (Lamentations 3.37-38)?" "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it? (Amos 3.6)" "But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good...(Genesis 50.20)." "And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel (Ezekiel 14.9)." "The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly (Job 12.6)." "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things (Isaiah 45.7)." "The Lord hath made all things for Himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil (Proverbs 16.4)."

The young Conditionalist might compare "The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord (Proverbs 16.1)" with the Psalmist's prayer, "Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity...(Psalm 141.4)."

And he might compare "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil (Matthew 6.13)" with "Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil (Matthew 4 .1)." By whose Spirit was Jesus led?

And he might ponder, "Remember the former things of old: for I am God and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure (Isaiah 46.9-10)." In his miasmatic meditations he might answer whether or not this text includes the evil things that were not yet done. It is important that he should answer this question, since God and Isaiah did not qualify that phrase with words like "good" or "evil."

Then, when he has done that, he might think upon this: "The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand." Has the young Conditionalist considered that, by observing whatever comes to pass, one can see what God has eternally thought?

Before he is done with our help, the lucky young writer should address at least two more scriptures: "...For the Lord of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and His hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back (Isaiah 14.24-27)?" And, "...being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will (Ephesians 1.11)." ...